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ATO podcasts - episodes 41 to 45

Investments and assets, new to business, illegal phoenix activity, our Evergreen Program and the shadow economy.

Published 1 May 2023

Episode 45 – Investors: investments and assets

In this episode of Tax inVoice, host David Jepsen is joined by the ATO’s Tax Time spokesperson Assistant Commissioner Tim Loh to discuss the fundamentals of investing, for tax agents and investors – both old and new.

When investing, it is important to consider all your assets when completing your tax return. Assets can include rental properties, shares, micro-investments like exchange traded funds (ETFs) and crypto assets.

You need to declare the income you receive from investments such as dividends and rent, but also the capital gains tax (CGT) that occurs when the assets are ‘disposed’ of. CGT is not a separate tax and makes up part of your taxable income.

Keeping accurate records will assist you in completing your tax return.

For more information visit:

Media: Tax inVoice Episode 45: Investors - Investments and assets Link (Duration: 24:41)

Episode 44 – New to business

In this episode of Tax inVoice, podcast host David Jepsen is joined by Assistant Commissioner of Small Business Experience Andrew Watson to discuss tips on starting a new business, what tax and super obligations need to be met and the helpful resources available to all business owners.

Your operations are considered a business activity if your work is planned, repeatedly conducted in a businesslike manner and undertaken with the intent of making a profit.

To start your new business on the right foot, make sure to do research and plan out your approach. This will assist in deciding on a business structure, what records need to be kept and the best method to meet your tax and super obligations.

The ATO has a number of resources available to assist new business owners and help them succeed in their new ventures.

For more information visit:

Media: Tax inVoice Episode 44: New to Business Link (Duration: 13:58)

Episode 43 – Don't get burned by illegal phoenix activity

George Montanez, Assistant Commissioner of the Phoenix and Evasion Program, joins Tax inVoice podcast host David Jepsen to talk about illegal phoenix activity, how it affects the Australian community and what the ATO is doing to disrupt illegal phoenix operators.

Illegal phoenix activity occurs when a company is liquidated, wound up or abandoned to avoid paying its debts and tax obligations. In its place, a new company is started to carry on the same business activity without the debt.

This creates an uneven playing field and puts businesses doing the right thing at a competitive disadvantage.

Through the Phoenix Taskforce, the ATO and other federal, state and territory agencies are working together to detect, deter and disrupt illegal phoenix activity.

If you know of or suspect phoenixing, you can make an anonymous tip off by completing the tip-off form, phoning 1800 060 062 or by emailing

For more information visit:

Media: Tax inVoice Episode 43: Don't get burned by illegal phoenix activity Link (Duration: 20:27)

Episode 42 – The ATO Evergreen Program

Deputy Commissioner Matt Hay, Assistant Director Shanell Gadd and former Evergreen Program participant Kia Yeatman join Tax InVoice podcast host David Jepsen to talk about the ATO’s Evergreen recruitment program.

The Evergreen program focuses on uplifting representation of Aboriginal and/or Torres Strait Islander peoples in the ATO. It combines on-the-job and formal training over a 12-month period, including 2 6-month work rotations that give participants the opportunity to work in a variety of roles.

Evergreen participants have support from a dedicated program manager, rotation team leaders and buddies. They are also offered a permanent position upon completion and provided opportunities for meaningful career progression.

Throughout the program participants get to experience the different work types and careers options available as an ATO employee, while doing work that makes a difference.

Positions are available in Albury, Canberra, Dandenong, Geelong, Gosford, Newcastle, Townsville and Traralgon.

For more information visit:

Media: Tax inVoice Episode 42: The ATO Evergreen Program Link (Duration: 14:25)

Episode 41 – Shadow economy

Assistant Commissioners, Michael Morton, Small Business Risk and Strategy, and Peter Holt, Shadow Economy Program, join Tax InVoice podcast host, David Jepsen, to talk about the shadow economy, the types of activities involved, and its effect on the Australian community.

The shadow economy, also known as the cash economy or black economy, refers to deliberate behaviour which can involve under-declaring income, paying staff cash in hand or under the counter, sham contracting, trading in illicit tobacco, illegal drugs or counterfeit goods, ABN, GST or duty fraud, and phoenixing.

Small businesses and their tax agents can now access Reported transactions in ATO online platforms to view third-party data we hold on taxable payments, government grants and business transactions. This provides transparency about business income reported to us and offers other benefits to small business owners.

The shadow economy accounts for around $11 billion in lost revenue each year. If you suspect someone is involved, make an anonymous tip-off by phoning us on 1800 060 062 or visiting

For more information visit:

Media: Tax inVoice Episode 41: Shadow Economy Link (Duration: 14:00)